Fascinating stuff. When I was in prison, I read a little about this chaotic period (in my last months of freedom, I did get to see "Amazing Spider-Man 2" and hear the ambitious post-ASM2 plans. You left out the scuttlebutt about an Aunt May movie!
As a big comic fan, I was curious as to how a Sinister Six film would work. My interest was mild until I heard someone -- Goddard, maybe -- compare the idea to "The Wages Of Fear", which was just wildly ambitious and exciting to me. I was thrilled to see whatever that was.
Later, I actually got pretty excited for this wave of Sony "villain" movies. My interest was ideological -- Spidey had such a great rogue's gallery, and many of them were repugnant, while a few others genuinely had redeeming qualities. More notably, Spider-Man has, in many instances, had rehabilitative attitudes towards many baddies. I thought, for the sake of criminal justice, these films could be a teachable moment. You could show these characters, written off as rogues, explored as human and dynamic, one after the other, not "bad people" but people who made choices and compromises to get to where they end up -- on the other side of justice, against a superhero. I thought it could somehow change the discussion and allow people a chance to stop before blindly labeling people as criminals.
Of course, they immediately dropped the ball with "Venom". I remember being infuriated by a conversation late in the film between Eddie and the symbiote where Eddie is explaining this juvenile difference between "good guys" and "bad guys" (i.e. people worthy of eating) as basically a relatively-easy gut call. All moral ambiguity out the window, moreso with Morbius and Kraven also suddenly turned into heroic figures. They lost the immediate hook -- building up a character audiences could like, and then forcing audiences to root for them against Spider-Man.
It is frankly amusing to know that Sony wanted, somehow, to wrangle all those characters together in a future movie, because there is so little to nothing in any of those films suggesting they might find commonality with each other. What a ridiculous idea.
Wow. Thank you so much for this comment! I’m really happy to see there are people to whom my write-up on the SSU really appeals.
I didn’t even mean to talk about this movie initially, but it grew out of my desire to recontextualize the present-day SSU. Everything I already suspected they were doing with the characters was confirmed when I discovered what the actual concept of Goddard’s S6 was. And nobody was talking about it!
Regarding Aunt May, I know that was a thing that came up but I don’t think it was ever a real project that went into dev-t, more like an idea. And I actually suspect that alongside the Black Cat/Silver Sable film it might’ve been the DNA of what became Madame Web. Like, Sony wanted to do something with multiple female characters at the helm on the one hand and a prequel to Spider-Man on the other. I believe both those ideas came together with Web.
I would’ve loved to see Goddard’s take on S6 but I also legitimately like the SSU movies. I don’t think any of them are really bad, with the exception of Carnage, and even that film could’ve worked if it wasn’t butchered in post-production. I still find Kraven to be close to a legitimate masterpiece and might prep my defense article later this year.
I think it's close. Some of the ADR is distracting and I think they cut down on Kraven's animal communication powers to the point of obscurity, but this is otherwise a movie that knows exactly what it wants to be and succeeds at all the things it sets up. Just in terms of writing and editing, blocking and cinematography, there is a sense of unity here that's often missing from the other SSU movies. And no ironic detachment as is the norm for the MCU.
Anyway, I hope to lay out my thesis before the end of the year.
Thank you very much for saying that! To an extent, I am trying to respond to what film journalism has largely become today: quick clickbait posts with a lot of filler.
I also like to debunk popular myths or misconceptions. So much misinformation is perpetuated in the film world and then quickly becomes accepted as fact through repetition.
Love that. I wish there was a big quarterly magazine of nothing but articles like this. I’d read every word of that. Anyway, thanks again and looking forward to whatever you post next.
Fascinating stuff. When I was in prison, I read a little about this chaotic period (in my last months of freedom, I did get to see "Amazing Spider-Man 2" and hear the ambitious post-ASM2 plans. You left out the scuttlebutt about an Aunt May movie!
As a big comic fan, I was curious as to how a Sinister Six film would work. My interest was mild until I heard someone -- Goddard, maybe -- compare the idea to "The Wages Of Fear", which was just wildly ambitious and exciting to me. I was thrilled to see whatever that was.
Later, I actually got pretty excited for this wave of Sony "villain" movies. My interest was ideological -- Spidey had such a great rogue's gallery, and many of them were repugnant, while a few others genuinely had redeeming qualities. More notably, Spider-Man has, in many instances, had rehabilitative attitudes towards many baddies. I thought, for the sake of criminal justice, these films could be a teachable moment. You could show these characters, written off as rogues, explored as human and dynamic, one after the other, not "bad people" but people who made choices and compromises to get to where they end up -- on the other side of justice, against a superhero. I thought it could somehow change the discussion and allow people a chance to stop before blindly labeling people as criminals.
Of course, they immediately dropped the ball with "Venom". I remember being infuriated by a conversation late in the film between Eddie and the symbiote where Eddie is explaining this juvenile difference between "good guys" and "bad guys" (i.e. people worthy of eating) as basically a relatively-easy gut call. All moral ambiguity out the window, moreso with Morbius and Kraven also suddenly turned into heroic figures. They lost the immediate hook -- building up a character audiences could like, and then forcing audiences to root for them against Spider-Man.
It is frankly amusing to know that Sony wanted, somehow, to wrangle all those characters together in a future movie, because there is so little to nothing in any of those films suggesting they might find commonality with each other. What a ridiculous idea.
Wow. Thank you so much for this comment! I’m really happy to see there are people to whom my write-up on the SSU really appeals.
I didn’t even mean to talk about this movie initially, but it grew out of my desire to recontextualize the present-day SSU. Everything I already suspected they were doing with the characters was confirmed when I discovered what the actual concept of Goddard’s S6 was. And nobody was talking about it!
Regarding Aunt May, I know that was a thing that came up but I don’t think it was ever a real project that went into dev-t, more like an idea. And I actually suspect that alongside the Black Cat/Silver Sable film it might’ve been the DNA of what became Madame Web. Like, Sony wanted to do something with multiple female characters at the helm on the one hand and a prequel to Spider-Man on the other. I believe both those ideas came together with Web.
I would’ve loved to see Goddard’s take on S6 but I also legitimately like the SSU movies. I don’t think any of them are really bad, with the exception of Carnage, and even that film could’ve worked if it wasn’t butchered in post-production. I still find Kraven to be close to a legitimate masterpiece and might prep my defense article later this year.
J.C. Chandor is a great filmmaker. But Kraven a legit masterpiece? That's WILD.
I think it's close. Some of the ADR is distracting and I think they cut down on Kraven's animal communication powers to the point of obscurity, but this is otherwise a movie that knows exactly what it wants to be and succeeds at all the things it sets up. Just in terms of writing and editing, blocking and cinematography, there is a sense of unity here that's often missing from the other SSU movies. And no ironic detachment as is the norm for the MCU.
Anyway, I hope to lay out my thesis before the end of the year.
Thanks for posting. I really love your stuff and I wish there was more movie journalism like this.
Thank you very much for saying that! To an extent, I am trying to respond to what film journalism has largely become today: quick clickbait posts with a lot of filler.
I also like to debunk popular myths or misconceptions. So much misinformation is perpetuated in the film world and then quickly becomes accepted as fact through repetition.
Love that. I wish there was a big quarterly magazine of nothing but articles like this. I’d read every word of that. Anyway, thanks again and looking forward to whatever you post next.